Starting the Conversation: What do you say to a Mormon?

Pastor Burcham’s Sermon

Sunday, August 3, 2008

You spot them coming from down the block. They’re about two houses away, two young men, black pants, white shirt, skinny black tie. You’re trying to get the groceries in and you’re hurrying as best you can but one bag too many. If it wouldn’t have been for that case of Diet Pepsi, you could have rushed inside and pretended you weren’t home. But instead, they’ve descended upon you, two young men, smiles on their faces and literature in hand. “How are you today?” they ask. “Fine,” you say. “Can we talk to you for just a few minutes about family life?” “No, no, no,” you say, “I already belong to a church. It’s a great church with a wonderful preacher.” “That’s okay,” they say. “We just want to talk to you and give you some resources so you can have a more fulfilling family life.” What are you going to say? How are you going to react? How will you start the conversation with these two young men from the Mormon church? Or the official name is The Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints.

You see, if we believe that salvation is found through grace alone and belief in Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, that’s not what the official teachings of the Mormon church is. And so if we want them to be saved as we are saved, how are we going to start the conversation so God’s Holy Spirit can work on their hearts?

Well, last week, if you were with us, we learned from St. Paul that there are three important elements to starting a conversation with someone who has a different religious belief than you. Number one is you have to know a little bit about what they believe, know a little bit about their religion. Number two is you have to find some points in common, some common ground, common language that you can use and then, finally, to boldly proclaim the gospel to them and identify what is the one message they need to hear more than anything else.

So that’s what we’re going to do this week as we delve into the Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints. But first of all, we’re going to learn a little bit about them. Most of the research I’ve done this past week is from their own website, mormon.org, so I didn’t go to secondary sites. I went straight to their belief section and their history section so, in their own words, tried to understand what it is they believe and teach.

So a little bit of history. Although they’ll say their church goes back to millennium, most historians say no, it dates back to the 1830's with Joseph Smith. Joseph Smith was a young man who lived in Palmyra, New York, on a small farm. That was a time in our country where there was a lot of religious revivals going on, many of the major denominations that come over to the United States. Others were popping up. There were also traveling revival shows of preachers who would come around and have tent meetings. Joseph Smith would say he was confused by all of that and he didn’t know which one he was supposed to join so, in 1823, he had what is called a theophany, that is, God Himself appeared to him, he said, and it was Jesus. And Jesus talked to him and He told Joseph Smith that he wasn’t to join any of the churches out there, that there was no correct church for him to belong to, that he just needed to be patient and he would progress and mature. Well, he had to wait four years. Four years later, he says he was visited by an angel, the angel Moroni. The angel Moroni explained to him that there were hidden near his farm tablets that contained a history, a further history of God’s people, actually the history of one of the tribes of Israel that came over and inhabited North America and so the history of this Israelite tribe in North America was contained on these tablets but he would have to mature before he would see those tablets. So he spent time in prayer and studied the scriptures and then, four years later, all of a sudden, the angel Moroni comes to him again not far from his farm. He unearthed golden tablets and a golden breastplate left over from this tribe of Israel that inhabited North America.

Now it’s in a dialect that he doesn’t recognize. It’s in an ancient Egyptian dialect that really no one has ever seen before so the angel Moroni gave him two rocks, the urim and the theorem, that would then allow him to translate and interpret the text on these golden tablets. He’s joined by several friends, most notably a man named Proudly, who is then going to transcribe for him whatever the translation is.

So Joseph Smith is on one side of a curtain with the golden tablets. On the other side of the curtain, so he couldn’t see the golden tablets, is Proudly. And as he used the urim and the theorem, he interpreted and translated the golden tablets while Proudly wrote them all down. And then once the translation was done, the angel Moroni took the tablets back away again along with the golden shield, never to be seen again. But they had the translation. That translation they then published in 1830. That’s what’s called the Book of Mormon. It’s named after the angel that told him where to find the tablets, the angel Moroni, thus, the Book of Mormon.

Now several other things happened, though, during the three years of translation. Joseph Smith said that, at one point, John the Baptist, appeared to him and to Proudly. And John the Baptist ordained them into the priesthood of Aaron. You might recall Aaron from the Old Testament. There was Moses and his brother-in-law, Aaron. Aaron then started up the whole priesthood in Israel. So John the Baptist ordains the two of them in the priesthood of Aaron and then he commands them to baptize each other because the only legitimate baptism has to be done by an authorized priest who can trace their way back to Aaron, which now of course these two can. Joseph Smith said a little bit later on, Peter, James and John, three of the disciples, appeared to him and this time, they laid hands on him and ordained him into the priesthood of Melchizedek. Melchizedek is only mentioned a couple of times in the Book of Genesis. Now he’s ordained in the order of Melchizedek.

Are you with me so far? Golden tablets transcribed, priesthood of Aaron, priesthood of Melchizedek. Now let me step out of history for a moment so you know why this is important. This is foundational to their belief system. What they’ll say on the web site is that throughout time, God has chosen His representatives to have the authority and the right to speak and to act for them. They’re called His prophets and the authority they have is called the priesthood. So they’ll note several times that this happened would be like in the time of Abraham or in the time of Moses or in the time of the disciples. These are individuals chosen by God who would be His representative who had the authority to speak and to act for Him. They would have their own revelations from God, of course, Moses talked to God. The apostles spent time with Jesus so face to face with God, and then they could speak for God. Those times are called times of dispensation. So during times of dispensation, there is at least one leader chosen by God, ordained by God, a priest of God, a prophet of God who could speak and act for Him. There are also times, they would say though, times of aposticy, times of aposticy is when God withdraws from His people and there is no priesthood and there are no prophets and there is no word from God. This is what happened after the apostles died, they say. When the apostles died, then the priesthood died with them and we entered into a time of aposticy, which means God is no longer revealing Himself to His people. That explains all the denominations in the world because then, human beings just did whatever they thought was best. So they have all these various beliefs and all these different denominations that strung forth from that because they didn’t have one of God’s appointed leaders, one of His prophets, one of His priests to reveal the correct way for them. That’s why Jesus told Joseph Smith, “Don’t join any church because they’re all wrong. All of them are incorrect. You have to wait until another time of dispensation,” which begins with Joseph Smith. And he is the beginning of the last dispensation, the last time in which God will have His chosen servants among His people who have the authority and the right to speak and to act for Him. Thus, the name Church of the Latter Day Saints. These are the last days. This is the last dispensation.

And so starting with Joseph Smith, since he now is ordained in the order of Melchizedek, he will receive revelations straight from God and then he shares that with his church. So, for them, they have the authority of the bible, they have the Book of Mormon and any revelation that’s given to the top prophet of the church beginning with Joseph Smith being passed down to the top prophet in the Mormon church even unto today, the guy who is the head prophet in the church can still receive revelations directly from God and, if he does, then that’s treated on the same level and the same authority as scripture.

Okay, now back to the history. So 1830, publishes the Book of Mormon. He gathers some followers but he also gathers a lot of enemies. Moves out of New York, down to Ohio, gets into trouble down there, moves from there down to Missouri. In Missouri, he gets into even more trouble. He’s arrested, carted off to jail and in 1844, his brother and he, while in a jail cell, a mob rushed into the jail and murdered both of them. Not before, though, Joseph Smith ordained the next prophet, the next priest in the order of Melchizedek and his name was Brigham Young.

Brigham Young you probably recognize as the guy who led the famous trek from Missouri out to Utah for them to establish their temple out there and still today, that is the center of their religion out in Utah. So in a very broad stroke, that’s the history of Mormonism.

Now I always like to ask the question, “So what’s the appeal?” Golden tablets. Can’t see them. What’s the appeal? This is opinion time. Opinion time, I think the appeal is they have such strong family teachings. Back in the ‘80's, they had a series of commercials. Even today, it’s this emphasis on strong family values. They stress chastity. They stress faithfulness. They stress spending time with your family, nurturing your family, being that nuclear and extended family. I think that’s the draw for people.

The second thing which I think is a draw for people is they’re teaching on salvation is more on the lines of “God does His part, we do our part” in the simplest of terms. And so as Americans who have this really strong work ethic, that resonates with us. That means, “The harder I try, the more it counts for God. I kind of like that idea. That means the more I do, the more points I score with God, yeah, I get credit for what I do.” I think that has an appeal unto it. Whatever it is, there are 13 million plus strong. There are a lot of people who are following after it.

What are their core beliefs? First of all, their concept of God: God, they say, first of all, is the father. The father is a physical being, just like you and I are physical beings. He at one time was like us but now He has progressed to be a God but still a physical being and you and I actually look like Him because doesn’t scripture say we’re made in His image so this is what God looks like. The Son, his first-born son, is Jesus. He also is a physical being, that one can see and He has a body. There is the Holy Spirit. Now the Holy Spirit is not a physical being because otherwise how could he be a spirit? How could he live within us? This is not the concept of the trinity which the Christian church embraces which is there is one God in three persons. In reality, these are three gods. You have the father, the son and the Holy Spirit, two of them being physical beings.

What’s the concept of human beings then? Human beings, a quote from their website says, “Before you live in this world, you live with your father in heaven.” Before you lived in this world, you lived with your father in heaven. Their teaching is that the father has all of these spirit children. This is a preexistence to this earth. There are spirit children. And the father knew that if these spirit children were going to progress to be like Him, they would also have to take on a physical body. They would also have to experience what it is to be mortal. And so because He loves the spirit children and He wanted them to be like Him, He commanded His firstborn spirit child, who now has a physical body, Jesus. You see the difference between our concept of who Jesus is and theirs? He’s just one of the spirit children who takes on a physical body, commanded Jesus to create the earth so these spirit children could have an opportunity to be mortal. Now when He did that, they say, He knew once they became mortal and took on bodies, they would sin. So immediately, he assigned Jesus to atone for their sins. At the same time, the whole idea of progressing to be like Him is all centered around making choices. When you choose good, you’re rewarded and blessed. When you choose wrong or evil, then there’s punishment and there are consequences to that. Well, how can you understand that if there’s no evil in the world? Therefore, the father sent the devil to tempt Eve. He wanted evil into the world because otherwise how would you ever experience it? And if you couldn’t experience it, then you couldn’t progress because you really wouldn’t be able to choose good. So Eve falls into sin and that’s actually a good thing. Because now we have all these troubles and tribulations in life but those are stepping stones so we can be more like the father.
And so we make good choices and we’re blessed and we’re happy. We make bad choices and we suffer the consequences of that.

What’s their idea of salvation then? The idea of salvation is that these spirit children have to progress through a physical body so they can be like the father. They live in the world. They struggle, they sin but as long as they believe in Jesus, Jesus will make up for whatever they don’t make up for. So whatever you’re lacking, He’ll sort of take you the rest of the way. So that means if you’re going to be in heaven, you have to believe in Jesus, you have to repent of your sins and you have to promise never to sin again. And you have to strive to be perfect and you must be baptized in the Mormon church by an authorized priest. That’s the only legitimate baptism and it is a requirement of salvation. So the requirements of salvation are not that you’re saved by grace, this is God’s gift, the requirements are yes, you have to believe but you also have to do several things. You must repent. You must confess. You must promise to lead a perfect life. And you must work as hard as you can. The quote from the Book of Mormon is “We are saved by grace and by all that we can do.” So all of our efforts work towards this and, in the end, Jesus will take care of the rest.

That means you progress through this life. Now there are three levels of heaven. The first level of heaven is for immoral people. Those are the ones who are not Mormons. They also lead rotten lives. They’re immoral people. They’re destined for such a not nice place eventually. Then there’s the second level of heaven. The second level of heaven is for those people who we know who lead moral lives. They’re good people. They try real hard but they’re not Mormons. They can’t make it to the top level, the celestial point. The celestial heaven is only for Mormons, those who work real hard, those who strive to lead a perfect life, look for Jesus, are baptized into the Mormon church, then they can make it to the top level of heaven.

Okay, a couple of side notes here. Why is it that in the Mormon church, you always hear about they have big families and they always stress having families. Well, think about this for a moment. If there are these spirit children of the father who are in need of physical bodies, by you having a big family, you can provide the physical body for these spirit children to inhabit. And what’s the best place for them to inhabit and to progress towards the father but in a Mormon family because that’s the only true and right church there is and they can be baptized into the only church which that means they can make it to the highest level of heaven. So the best thing we can do is to have children so God’s spirit children can grow up in a Mormon home. Why are Mormons into genealogy? If you want to trace your family history, where do you go? You go to Utah, right? That’s because, remember, you have to be baptized into the Mormon church if you’re going to make it to the top rung of heaven. Well, those baptisms can happen by proxy. In other words, for those of your relatives, living and dead, you can have them baptized into the Mormon church. So you have these great big data banks of all this history so you and your entire family can be baptized into the Mormon church. Because one of their other central beliefs is that you can be bound to your family forever so not only in this life but you can be bound to your spouse and your children even into the next life into the top rung of heaven. So they’re into the genealogy.

Alright, there’s lots more, lots more. Let’s kind of bring it down to this. The basic goal or belief can probably be summarized in a quote from Brigham Young. Brigham Young said, “As man is, God once was. As God is, man will become.” The goal is we must go through this life in this mortal life, suffer through things, choose good so we can progress and we can join the father in heaven, be like the father in heaven, in essence be God ourselves. That’s the eventual goal, make it to the celestial level so all of us can be gods like the father is God. How do you respond to that?

There are lots of ways you can respond to that. You can say, “Golden tablets that magically disappeared. Hum.” Every time Joseph Smith got into trouble, he had a new revelation that magically made everything okay. Hum. All kinds of cynical thoughts you can have. 13 million plus people, though, are following it. I’m not sure that cynical thoughts and jokes are going to get us anywhere because 13 million people don’t know the true story of the gospel.

Let’s look for some common ground. How can we have some common points that we could start the conversation? Well, the first thing is they believe in the bible. I know they believe in the Book of Mormon and they believe in the revelations that are given by Joseph Smith and all the other prophets but the point is they will accept the authority of the bible. Now they’ll say the Book of Mormon is the bible of today but the point is we have a starting point. We can use scripture with them. They understand that.

They understand Jesus and the idea of atonement. Now I agree that they’re missing the boat on the full salvation but you can talk about Jesus. You can talk about the idea of atonement. You can talk about the idea of a Savior and you have common language here. There are many points you can spring off to start the conversation so you can do the third thing, which is to boldly proclaim the true gospel. And what is the thing I believe they need to hear more than anything else? That they’re saved by grace through faith alone. That it’s God’s gift.

Think about it for a moment. You have people living under the burden of the law. On their website, they talk all about Jesus, all kinds of talk about atonement but when it comes down to it, you have to obey the ordinances of the church, that what Jesus has done is not complete. You must do your part. You have to live flawlessly. You have to make good choices. If you make bad choices, you suffer the consequences of that. That means if you’re having a bad day, well you must have made a bad choice and now you’re suffering the consequences of that which means unless you want other people to think bad of you, you better put a smile on your face.

An interesting transcript I read from an ABC special called Utah the Hidden Secret, the level of depression in Utah is exceedingly high as compared to other states. And so as they looked at that, at least one psychologist wondered is there a correlation, and he believed there was, between the fact that 70+% of the population of Utah was Mormon? He says part of the issue here is a cultural issue, the culture of the church. Although they talk about atonement, in reality, there are unrealistic expectations put on the members of the Mormon church and he specifically pointed out women and girls. He says women are supposed to be at home taking care of their family of five, getting ready for their husband to come home with a smile on their face, no matter how rotten the day might have been, no matter how bad the kids might have been, you have a smile on your face waiting for him. If your husband abuses you and he goes out drinking every night, you have a smile on your face. Because if you’re not smiling, then you must have made incorrect choices and you’re suffering the consequences from that. You make the good choices, the right choices, you’re obedient to the church and you’re supposed to have a happy life. What do you do when you don’t have a happy life? The amount of guilt they’re living with, of trying to match up to expectations that no human being this side of heaven can do. Can you imagine living with that day in and day out if you’re taking your faith and your religion seriously?

More than anything else, they need to know the true gospel. If I could share one passage, it would be Ephesians 2:8 and 9, “For it is by grace that’s called undeserved love that you’ve been saved, rescued. It’s through faith your relationship with God, not by works. It’s a gift from God.” You see, you don’t contribute to gifts, right? You receive gifts. You don’t do your part in a gift. All you do with a gift is receive it.

Start the conversation by saying, “You know, I’m kind of with you on the fact that I like to get credit for the things I do. I really do. I like to know that if I work hard, I’m going to be rewarded, that if I make the right choices, that’s going to be a good thing in my life and not a negative thing in my life. And so I’m with you on all of that. But I have to tell you, in my relationship with God, I struggle with that a bit because if I’m supposed to do my part and I’m supposed to make good choices and I’m supposed to try really hard, the question that nags me is how much is enough? And did I really try hard enough? Because I don’t know about you but every one of us when we lay down tonight and we recount our day, can we not say ‘I could have tried harder? I could have said something differently. I could have made a different choice.’ Every day, day in and day out, can you not say ‘I could have done something differently.’ So at what point is the break-even point? At what point have you crossed over and now you’re okay and Jesus will make up for the rest and you’ll make it to that top rung of heaven? Where do you draw that line? You see, I have trouble with that. Instead, I read the scriptures and God’s Word tells me that He’s taken me out of the picture completely, that there is nothing I can do to appease God. There’s nothing I can do to make up for my sins. There’s nothing I can do to earn God’s favor. Instead, God just gives me His salvation. When Jesus died on the cross, His death was complete. It took care of everything. There’s nothing more that I can contribute to that. And you see, what that tells me is I never doubt my salvation. When I go to sleep at night, I never have to ask ‘Did I do enough?’ Because God has done it all for me. Now do I want to live for God? I do. Do I want to have a righteous life? I do. Do I want to follow His commandments and His example? I do but the difference is I want to follow that out of desire and not out of guilt. I don’t want to follow God’s commands because I have to or because it’s an expectation. I want to follow them because I want to and I desire to. And I don’t know about you but I’d much rather do something because I want to as opposed to I have to.”

That’s the message they need to hear. It’s the message you and I need to hear and we need to be reminded of it all the time but, even more so, they need to hear that central teaching of God’s Word. So the next time you see the two men in the black pants, white shirt and skinny black tie, you can hide inside and pretend you’re not home or you can greet them with a smile on your face, maybe literature in your hands. And you can start the conversation. Because if you don’t start the conversation, where will they be?

Would you stand and pray with me. Now may the peace of God that surpasses all understanding keep our hearts and minds in Christ Jesus. Amen.

Copyright 2008 Gloria Dei Lutheran Church